How AI and Technology Are Transforming Publishing with Danielle Hutchinson and Donna Mitchell

Donna Mitchell [00:00:00]:
Welcome to pivoting the Web3 podcast. And today I have an exciting guest. I'm really excited about this because I haven't had anybody else in this space that's talking about publishing. She is the Chief Creative Officer at Authors on Mission. Now, that title of the company really excited me because it was talking about being on mission, which we all tried to drive to in our purpose. But she's traveled around the world two times. She's published over 150 ghostwriter books. And I'm not going to talk anymore.

Donna Mitchell [00:00:31]:
I'm going to turn it over to Danielle Hutchinson so she can introduce herself and say hello to our audience in hers. So, hello, Danielle. Nice to have you on pivoting the Web3 podcast.

Danielle Hutchinson [00:00:43]:
Well, thank you so much for having me on. I'm really looking forward to this conversation talking about not only ghostwriting and publishing, but how new technology is transforming that industry, especially with the new rise of AI and so much so many different technologies just like that. So I think it's going to be a really fun conversation and very insightful, too.

Donna Mitchell [00:01:04]:
Well, the fun part is going to be, first, you are a real digital nomad. How did that take place? How did you end up realizing that you can do this and travel the world and just do it all, Give us a little bit of insight on your background and how that kind of materialized?

Danielle Hutchinson [00:01:19]:
Yeah, of course. Well, I started off as a teacher. It was a job that I'd wanted my whole life. You know, I was very excited to work with the children and, you know, just immerse myself in the classroom life. But after a while, I realized, you know, what. What else might there be out there for me? And so I started dabbling in writing and editing, which is something I've also loved for a while. But, you know, something in me just thought, what's ever going to come from those journal entries, you know, as you're. As a little girl, so.

Danielle Hutchinson [00:01:46]:
But one day I decided, let me go ahead and start freelancing. And it just skyrocketed from there. I was able to. To just quadruple my teacher's salary. Began writing for people all over the world, the most fascinating people you'd ever meet. People from entrepreneurs to just incredible stories that I've heard, and it's been amazing. That being said, once it started taking off, that's what enabled me to begin traveling the world. Because when you're working remotely and you're making your own hours and all you need is a laptop at your disposal for this sort of job, you know, my Boyfriend and I were just lucky enough that we had the schedules and we took off.

Danielle Hutchinson [00:02:24]:
We traveled for last summer, it was about a month and a half. We were going all around Europe and Asia and every stop along the way I was setting up my laptop, getting very inspired by the different types of scenery, the different cultures, and I had some of my best writing there. And you know, from all that I've just learned a ton about all my different clients, about the different industries and of course related to our conversation today how AI and technology could be a huge benefit for that regardless of where you are in the world. So that's the gist of it. And of course along the way I became involved with Authors on Mission, which is just an incredible company that allows people of all different walks of life to get their stories told about the wrap up.

Donna Mitchell [00:03:09]:
Thank you. Sorry. So that sounds really exciting, but what was it that made you say this is my mission? That your mission is now being with Authors on Mission and just doing what you're doing. It seems like you're very passionate about it. We've had some conversation. Was there one pivotal moment in your life when you said, okay, I got to just do this?

Danielle Hutchinson [00:03:30]:
So it did come a little bit slow, a little slowly. I just started dabbling a little bit on the freelancing end and it started growing and growing. As I mentioned, I'd have to say what the real turning point was, was when I started to realize the impact I was having on my clients lives, I would say, because I started working with people who have all these different stories and just the joy in their faces and the passion behind their words when they're talking about these stories, just it's something else. And they finally see that book on the shelf or on the Amazon page. It's an accomplishment, something that's going to be with them for the rest of their lives. So it's a whole other type of impact. I went from transforming children's lives to helping people all different walks of life transform their own lives by having their words on a page a legacy for them to carry on, which is just a whole other type of mission, being able to get people's dreams out there. So one specific example is I worked with this one woman who she actually conquered cancer and I was able to help her tell her story.

Danielle Hutchinson [00:04:30]:
She went from Australia to the States to get her treatments and her journey. And by doing that her get her story out there, more people go through the same situation. We're also able to hear her words of guidance. That's just one Example, if you know of many different tales I've been able to put out. So, yeah, to answer your question, I would say that's, that's what the moment was. Just seeing how I can help others by doing this, which is something I never would have considered, but it's, it's been incredible.

Donna Mitchell [00:04:59]:
So when you look at all that you've accomplished and the different books that you've written and the different genres that you've probably written, what separates? Maybe a shift in mindset or transformation in one direction and let's say another book that may have become a bestseller, but the mindset piece may not have been there. Can you paint a picture for us with something that you can recall where there's a distinct difference?

Danielle Hutchinson [00:05:29]:
So a difference between a mindset, mindset shift and.

Donna Mitchell [00:05:33]:
Well, are there any books that really stand out in your mind where you can't really compare them? There's some similarities. But what makes some of your ghostwriting books more unique than others? That's the question.

Danielle Hutchinson [00:05:46]:
Understood. Understood. So, yeah, I mean, especially when it comes to books that are for business leaders, you know, something like self help or different practices, you can implement that sort of thing. What you need to make sure is that it's not only engaging, but credible. It's offering something that you can implement right away. It's not just a memoir without anything to take from it. When I do have people come to me for memoirs, for example, everybody has a story to tell. Everybody has something incredible in their lives.

Danielle Hutchinson [00:06:17]:
But sometimes you need to spin it into a way that the readers can learn from it and apply it to their own lives. I once was working with one gentleman who was going through a divorce, so of course he has a lot of experiences to share. What's going to make that story stand out amongst others is transforming that into, okay, how can you also help other men in your shoes get through the same problems? What words of wisdom and advice can we implement and embed in your own tale? Does that make sense? So sort of like elevating it from just a story to one that people can learn from is what I would say.

Donna Mitchell [00:06:55]:
So do you see any patterns or trends in the marketplace or with your audiences where they want more authenticity or less of something else and, and, and, and more of self help or just what are you seeing in the trends and patterns in publishing and books?

Danielle Hutchinson [00:07:15]:
So right now there's a huge amount of self help books out there that was, I think that's a really big push that is starting to weigh down a little bit. I think the Biggest thing that we have to talk about today is either cryptocurrency or AI in general, or Web3Connections, which is your whole podcast. I think technology is really emerging as a trend because people are trying to catch that wavelength and learn more about it. I've had a ton of different manuscripts come to me recently where I'm editing their words to make the technological jargon more simplified, make it more relatable, break it down for everybody. I've seen a lot of those come through lately.

Donna Mitchell [00:07:56]:
So in the AI world, before we get into the do's and don'ts, what are you really seeing in the AI world with publishing, that raises your eyebrows? And it's like, oh, my goodness, I can't believe this is happening. There's been a lot of conversation on copywriting and tones and, you know, writing a book like someone else. Where's all of that going? How do you navigate that? Is, how does one that wants to write a book navigate it?

Danielle Hutchinson [00:08:23]:
Yeah. So I always caution when it comes to AI use, it's a great tool, but I hope that a lot of people can understand and agree with the fact that it's not a substitute for a writer. You can tell it, okay, write me a book about the latest crypto trends. But it's going to end up sounding robotic, repetitive. It's going to use words that nobody actually says. So really, you need to. It is, right? I mean, I don't know how many times somebody says delve in real life, but that's something that AI loves to repeat. What I've seen and noticed in terms of AI's current role in writing is it's excellent at things like generating first drafts, overcoming writer's block.

Danielle Hutchinson [00:09:05]:
But while it can give you that quantity, the humans are what gives you the quality. You might get 5,000 words from AI in an hour, but then you send me back a manuscript where I'm the editor, and it takes me three hours to turn that into something that's actually engaging and encouraging and readable. I would say to think about AI drafts as the raw material. It has the big, sick information, but lacks narrative flow. That another book might have the emotional hooks that keep readers turning the pages. I've never seen AI create a compelling opening chapter or memorable conclusion without me going in there and adding in that human intuition, which is what really motivates readers. So that's kind of where we stand right now, at least in my opinion.

Donna Mitchell [00:09:51]:
So from an ethical standpoint, are there any legal issues that are taking place and emerging right now on the Governance side that people need to be aware of. What's the conversation like?

Danielle Hutchinson [00:10:03]:
There are a lot of legal restrictions going on right now, especially with Amazon KDP Publishing, for example. You need to flag your content as being AI. So it's not something that is illegal to use, it's a tool. But more so is they want you to basically put a sticker on your manuscript saying this was created by AI or AI had a role to play in this. They don't want you to pass it off as being human written. And that's kind of where we're standing right now. And whether or not that's a good thing or a bad thing is to be determined, I would say. Right, Donna, because if you were a reader, would you rather read a book by a human or by AI? Some people might not care.

Danielle Hutchinson [00:10:43]:
You know, it depends on who your audience is. If somebody just wants to learn the pure raw facts, maybe just some AI content is what they need. So it's something to be determined, I'd say.

Donna Mitchell [00:10:55]:
But are there any ethical lines that people cross unknowingly?

Danielle Hutchinson [00:11:01]:
So when you think about it, AI by definition is created from the words of other people. It's, you know, in a very basic explanation, which I'm sure you know the more technical terms of it as well. But it draws from material that's already out on the Internet, something that somebody else has already written, it's been combined together, and then when it gives you that output, it's using that same material back. So when you're thinking about it, by definition, anything that AI creates is kind of plagiarized content in a way, because it's taking from what it's learned from other people and kind of repeating those most common phrases. Which is why when you throw a manuscript through an AI detector, it's going to be flagged because it's using the most common words and that's one of the signs it looks out for. So in terms of ethics, I mean, if you're thinking about it that way, in a way, then yeah, it would be unethical, I guess, because it's drawn from those others writings, which is another reason why you might need some humanization in that AI generated manuscript to make it more your own. Would you agree with me? Please let me know if you think it's a. I think it's something to be debated.

Donna Mitchell [00:12:10]:
I think there's still a lot of conversation around it right now and no one's really narrowed it down. But you said something very interesting that I'm sure people want to Know about what are some of the best AI detectors out there? If somebody's looking for something, what, what. What would you recommend? What do you use? What. What are publishers use for AI detection? Or what are people using today?

Danielle Hutchinson [00:12:33]:
There's a lot of tools out there. What I personally use is something called zero gbt. You kind of just put in a couple paragraphs or a couple pages of your writing and it'll let you know what percentage is AI, which percentage is human. But what I would caution, if you're using that tool or any other similar tool, there's also sites like Quill Bot Grammarly offers one gbt. Zero is another option. All of these, though, like I mentioned, their algorithms for detecting AI content is for most common phrases and usage. So I've always seen that as a paradox. Because, okay, if you're writing just like anybody else would, you'll probably use common phrases too, whether or not you're a human or an AI bot.

Danielle Hutchinson [00:13:17]:
So you have to have some really precise coding in that detector to figure out what exactly is common versus what humans are saying. I'm hoping I'm coming across clearly when I'm saying this. If I want to say a common metaphor, for example, AI might detect that as being AI written, because of course, it's a common phrase that AI would spit out itself too. But, you know, is it human or is it not? Is what I am trying to get at. You know, I bring content, it comes out AI generated. I'm like, but I wrote it. So.

Donna Mitchell [00:13:50]:
So I was just getting ready to ask you, does AI help you since AI has come around and it's out here, has it helped you with your position, being creative, and how do you use it in your work? Everybody's using it some kind of way. How do you use it when you're doing the ghost writing or editing? How do you use it when you want to use it versus doing it the old way? I'm assuming that you use AI.

Danielle Hutchinson [00:14:14]:
I think everybody does these days. If you're going to be successful in today's world, you need to stay on top of it. So it's about using it in a way that's ethical, like you mentioned, but also useful, not just spitting out that repetitive garbage. When I'm ghostwriting with clients, my process usually starts with extensive client interviews, trying to understand their voice. And then maybe I use the AI to look at their transcript and expand upon some key points. Maybe I'm using it to create an outline and see, okay, what exactly is my client looking to have emphasized? More so than other points, kind of brainstorming and helping outline the raw material. Those first drafts that I mentioned before, but I'm still the one steering the ship. I might take a bullet point from our outline and then throw it into AI with a prompt like discuss the importance of company culture.

Danielle Hutchinson [00:15:06]:
And then that kind of gives me some more ideas. Then I kind of rephrase that, expand on it, put it into that paragraph, for example. Also, if a client gives me their vocabulary, their metaphors, their way of explaining a complex concept, I can use that to help AI better match their voice sometimes and give me some ideas for something else that they might say along those lines. Mind you, again, though, none of this is actually going into the manuscript. It's more so idea generation. And I have so many documents open on my screen. If you saw my actual setup, these two computers behind me are nothing compared to the huge monitor I use. I have multiple documents open.

Danielle Hutchinson [00:15:47]:
These are ideas for what I could use that AI might have helped me come up the ideas. Here's the actual client's transcript. Here's the manuscript, and it's a bunch of maneuvering everything around to get it exactly perfect. So it's that human touch, and it sounds like my clients. So to answer your question, that's basically an overview of my process when I'm using AI to help me out with these types of projects.

Donna Mitchell [00:16:10]:
So for those of us that are not publishers but doing a lot of content writing and we want to write a book or we have a narrative or report, I've heard that they're using apps that are humanizing. And these apps that are humanizing, some people think they're great, some people think that's chatgpt. What kind of insight could you give us on the humanization of these apps? How they got to be considered humanizers because they're an app. But at the end of the day, do you think they work? What do you think about them?

Danielle Hutchinson [00:16:49]:
On the fence about it, because those apps are going back to what I said before about how the AI detectors work. They're detecting the most common phrases, the ones that AI might be spitting out. I mentioned before. Okay, how do you know if that's human or not? Because it's such a common phrase. I might say it, or robot might say it does is scrambles the words in your sentences so that it's no longer common. But by not being common, is that something you would ever actually see? Say, I wish I had an example right off the bat right now, but I can tell you I worked with a client. And one thing I do specialize in is humanization. I can go into detail more about that later, but I was talking to him about some examples about how a humanizer is different than a human doing the humanizing.

Danielle Hutchinson [00:17:35]:
So you might give it a sentence, and it takes it and it moves around the words or gives it a synonym to a word that's less common, and it just doesn't quite make sense. But that, therefore would bypass the AI detector. You're going to put your essay in, and it's going to come out human, but then your professor reads it, and it's going to be, did you really use that cinnamon? No one ever actually uses that word. So on and so forth. It's a careful balance, which is why you still need a human touch even when you're humanizing. Did I explain that clearly? Please let me know. I love the context.

Donna Mitchell [00:18:12]:
No, it sounds pretty sensible to me from what I was asking and everything. But you. You made a comment that you do humanization. That's one of your specialties. So how is that. How does humanization become a specialty, I guess, in the artificial intelligence world, right?

Danielle Hutchinson [00:18:29]:
Yes.

Donna Mitchell [00:18:29]:
How long has it been a specialty? How long have you been doing this in AI?

Danielle Hutchinson [00:18:37]:
That's so funny. So I have to say I've been doing this ghost writing and editing for almost three years now. And in that time, I've seen a lot of transformations. I started when AI wasn't even that prevalent, and I kind of started dabbling at it here and there. And at first I was like, I'm never going to use this. And then, of course, we're adapting. I learned more. I shared with you some of the ways I use it now.

Danielle Hutchinson [00:19:03]:
And then it's kind of come full circle where now more and more people are using it. And that's why humanizing is becoming more and more popular, because the more AI rises, the more people want more human. It's this funny balance. So that being said, honestly, within the last, I don't know, eight months, 10 months, I'd say it's when it's really been coming up where people are sending me their AI written manuscripts. And one, they might not even know how much work it needs. And two, they don't even want to admit that it's made by AI but it's so blatantly there that I'm like, we have to add that human touch. So in order to do that, that's different than what a Humanizer app would do, rather than just rewriting some words, which is a Part of it, what it really means is adding personal anecdotes, specific examples from that specific client's experiences, emotional context that makes the content feel authentic. For example, AI likes to write sentences like, it's important to build trust with your team.

Danielle Hutchinson [00:20:04]:
Very basic, something anybody would say. But then I would help humanize it by making it more specific to what your actual topic is. For example, turning it's important to build trust with your team to. I learned the hard way that when you don't follow through on small promises, my team stop believing my big vision. Just an example. You're making it specific. It's more relatable. It's human, basically.

Danielle Hutchinson [00:20:29]:
Looking for places where AI uses those generic examples, those common metaphors, replacing them with what the client's actual stories are inside of a successful company. You might say, when we landed the Johnson account after six months of relationship building. It's about adding those emotional beats that make business content actually compelling. The moments of doubt, the unexpected victories, the lessons learned, and all that comes from understanding the client's story. That's why the initial process of getting to know them is also a huge step. But I hope that makes sense. It's. It's a careful balance.

Danielle Hutchinson [00:21:04]:
Of course, I do use a humanizer a little bit there to make sure it does pass those AI detectors too. It's a lot of work, but it is really something that's coming up.

Donna Mitchell [00:21:16]:
So there is the possibility when you turn in some work for articles that they will kick you out or not publish it. If you've used AI and didn't humanize it and just gave it to them, do you think that's going to be a continued trend? Or, or do you think people's normalization of AI is going to continue to evolve? I guess is a question, because, you know, the latest articles talk about how some people feel like it's cheating. You know, nobody's looking at their books, no one's doing the long research. They're just doing their tests and they're just doing their research papers, and everybody's using AI. Do you consider that cheating or do you just see that as like another Google? And everybody's learning to get the information quicker, synthesize it and learn as they research. How do you look at that?

Danielle Hutchinson [00:22:11]:
So it goes back to what I mentioned before about Amazon. Amazon, when you're publishing a book with them, they require you to flag if it's AI. Written doesn't necessarily mean good or bad, but they're flagging it. So when you're trying to publish pieces into Forbes and Inc. Magazine. I've done the same thing. I've published, published, I've sent articles to them as well for my clients. They have a zero AI policy.

Danielle Hutchinson [00:22:33]:
They wouldn't accept it, like you mentioned. So in the future, I do see it still being there, but perhaps more so it needs to be flagged as well, because you don't want to put something out there and have somebody trust it as human written. For example, AI can completely fabricate statistics and quotes. You might tell it to write a paragraph and add in some research. And if you ever double check that it's completely false, you need to fact check it, for example. I think as we continue to progress and move forward with AI and it becomes more and more prevalent, then it's going to be unavoidable. So I think what's going to have to happen is creating a hybrid model where AI does the basic stuff, the heavy lifting, initial drafts, idea generation. But professionals, you know, people like me or, you know, anybody who's reviewing it, has to add in the strategy, the voice, that final polish, you know, whatever makes it a good balance is what I would say.

Donna Mitchell [00:23:33]:
So when you're working with a client, how do you make everything really just come to life and jump off the page? Especially if it's flat, They've done their best and now you've got to edit it, you've got an agreement. How do you make it jump off the page? And it's not you and it's not yours, I mean, but you still got to get in there and make it work. What process do you put yourself through to get there?

Danielle Hutchinson [00:23:57]:
So if I have a manuscript that a client handed me, for example, and my job is to make it more engaging and humanize it, or even if it is human written and we're just trying to add that little oomph to it, what I usually do is begin with a developmental edit, looking over and seeing what it needs, getting a good idea for it all, perhaps by reorganizing it, restructuring it. I get a good feel for it, try to figure out how it's best presented and then from there, for the most part, I would come up with a list of questions for the client. I generally hand them back a document that my feedback and hey, we could probably explain on this point. Do you have any examples of this? Do you have any case studies? What sort of experiences do you have with this that we can add in? And that kind of goes back to what I was mentioning before about adding in those realistic anecdotes? And that's how you add that extra little flair. Another thing I like to do is make some more creative elements. You're adding in some tables, for example, adding in some visuals, maybe a fun little quiz at the end of a chapter just to keep the reader engaged, something a little bit different. One thing I've been doing also is adding in QR codes into the books. If somebody has some content online, YouTube videos, for example, a reader can instantly pick up their phone and flip right to there.

Danielle Hutchinson [00:25:12]:
I'd say a mix of finding out more about the client's experiences in life, but then also working with them to add something more unique to the book as well. That's kind of a mixture of both of those that I generally go to.

Donna Mitchell [00:25:25]:
So who's your favorite client? Oh, well, I shouldn't say. Who's your favorite client?

Danielle Hutchinson [00:25:32]:
Oh, it's John Smith from.

Donna Mitchell [00:25:36]:
Let me change that. Is there a genre that you prefer to work with than others?

Danielle Hutchinson [00:25:43]:
So my guilty pleasure is romance books. It's, you know, it's such a fun content mill of just, you know, picking up a few tropes and putting it together and adding in some quirky characters and, you know, making it all fun and romantic. It's a pleasure. I have a ongoing relationship with one client who is a lot of fun to do, and we just bounce ideas off of each other and we get on the phone and we're laughing. So that's a lot of fun. But that being said, I've also worked with clients who, you know, we're talking about politics, we're talking about business, and sometimes I don't even understand what we're talking about. At first, I have to do a little bit of research, but it's always a lot of fun to learn, too. So I guess my answer to that is twofold.

Danielle Hutchinson [00:26:25]:
It's some of the fun, easy stuff, and then other times it's more challenging stuff where I have to dig a little bit to wrap my head around it. But I like to learn a lot about every topic. So a balance between both.

Donna Mitchell [00:26:37]:
So the listeners that are out there. I'm sorry, the listeners that are out there, if they were going to reach out to you, what do they need to have together? What? What do they need to have before they even think about reaching out to you?

Danielle Hutchinson [00:26:51]:
So the funny thing is, you don't need much. You just need to want to write a book. I've had people come to me with really no idea. Just, hey, I did this with my life. I want a book out there to protect my Legacy or to promote my brand. What can we do? So that's literally starting from scratch. We brainstorm together, we make that outline together. You know, step one to the end.

Danielle Hutchinson [00:27:15]:
Other people have a full fledged manuscript. They know exactly what they want. They just, you know, want someone else to look over it. So basics is just a desire to get your word out there. And I think that everybody has a story to tell. It's a matter of framing it. Right. And picking out exactly what about that story.

Danielle Hutchinson [00:27:33]:
We want to present to the world.

Donna Mitchell [00:27:36]:
Any minimal finances or costs that you want to share.

Danielle Hutchinson [00:27:40]:
Yeah, that is dependent on the project that you're looking at. If you're doing full fledged start to scratch, it is going to be a couple grand to get it out there. And if you're looking for publishing after the fact, marketing, of course, formatting and editing services do add on. So what I'd recommend is heading to authorsonmission.com going and scheduling a consultation with our team. We have an amazing staff and they can really talk to you and figure out where do you stand, where you're looking to get and what's your budget, what works for you. It's really. I like to compare what we have to a buffet table, pick and choose what's best for you, what works with what you're looking for. So it's, it's pretty flexible in that way, I would say so.

Donna Mitchell [00:28:24]:
With that said, if I remember correctly, you are listed in Ink 5000 or 5000 or 1000. You're listed in Inc. At what number.

Danielle Hutchinson [00:28:38]:
I think our last reading was? You know, I actually don't have that information on the top of my head. I think we're ranked 286.

Donna Mitchell [00:28:47]:
286. Do I remember correctly the last number.

Danielle Hutchinson [00:28:50]:
I. I do have on my records?

Donna Mitchell [00:28:52]:
I just wanted to mention that because I was really impressed with everything that you're doing, Authors on Mission. The caliber and the quality of the people and the resources and marketing and everything that you have and just the willingness and openness to talk with people who are really interested in writing their book. Having a legacy, getting something out there, getting that calling card. And it's the calling card today. And it seems like somebody like you, Danielle, that can really help them reach their goals and getting that book done and really bringing it to market. How can one reach you? What's the best way?

Danielle Hutchinson [00:29:33]:
Well, thank you first off for all those compliments. I do love what we do here at Authors on Mission. We have an incredible team of people who really just want to help people get their message out there. And we have everybody on our team has a different skill set and specialized in what you're looking for. So I really appreciate that. Thank you. And so if you're looking to get your own book out into the world to all the listeners today, head to Authors on Mission. That's where you can schedule your consultations.

Danielle Hutchinson [00:29:59]:
We're also on YouTube and Instagram at the same handle and also have the Authors on Mission podcast. And so all of those are incredible ways for you to get your foot in the door and take that first step.

Donna Mitchell [00:30:12]:
Well, thank you for joining pivoting to Web3 podcast. Good afternoon, good evening and good morning. We're shaping tomorrow together. And thank you, Danielle.

Danielle Hutchinson [00:30:21]:
Thank you so much for having me. It's been a very fun conversation to everyone out there. Keep innovating, keep writing, keep on your mission.

Donna Mitchell [00:30:31]:
All right.

Danielle Hutchinson [00:30:31]:
Thank you.

Donna Mitchell [00:30:32]:
Thank you.